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## Devuan "discourse" down with expired cert as of yesterday

If it's not on-topic, it's in here.
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23 posts • Page 3 of 3 • 1, 2, 3

### Re: Devuan "discourse" down with expired cert as of yesterda

by figlfdev » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:23 am

> Because you've expressed an interest in "creating a distro" and preferably not maintaining/distributing an iso
> here's an example of an implementation method that you may (or may not) wish to consider:
> http://antix.freeforums.org/modified-an ... t6129.html
> https://github.com/KERNELULTRAS/LegacyIce-antiX

thats cool, thank you. i do recall you mentioning that. ive actually never tried refracta snapshot, though ive thought about it a few times. to be honest i never thought id create a distro (or anything like a distro) until i started playing with the refractahrpup idea-- really just to find out if it were possible. still working on that answer now there are other goals too, but im still interested in the question.

> Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014
> topic: "a plea: in antix v14R final... please omit (shim) systemd"
> http://antix.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5237

this was around the time (late 2014) i started having issues with jessie (it wasnt stable yet, so i thought-- "eh, weird") and i started looking into it. so im not new to the party, except the antix party. after that i started reading debian mailing lists voraciously, trying to figure out what was going on with debian. i wasnt impressed. i started looking at solutions, including bsd. not my cuppa, hoped for something better. started following devuan once there was something to follow, months later i was happy using devuan.
i think its reasonable to say that it was the same time, the same party, but probably on different floors. ive been to parties that were on more than one floor, so yknow...

> Apologies for stating my perception so pointedly that it came across as an attack on your character.
> I'm usually opinionated and, yep, sometimes sharp-tongued... but I'm not into drama.
> You'll find no quarrel with me; I'm here to exchange ideas.

good-- the first impression you made was "here to exchanged ideas" and thats exactly what my interest in you is.
for what its worth, im NOT just looking to exchange debian related ideas. i want to know as much as i can about distros in general, and i dont want to do all the work myself. therefore a community interested in multiple distros a la distrowatch (but perhaps more in love with facts than appearances... still dw has had a good year imo.)

> In response (granted, it's only been a few days since then) no "thanks" nor "thanks, but no thanks"
> just a change of subject and shifted attention, jabberjawing here in this thread.

sorry, i will probably always be chatty. if you ever feel disrespected as a result i hope youll feel free to pm me, as thats not the intent at all. on some days im very focused, but ive been working my arse off this year to be social and im starting to run into limits on it. the result is that im still interested in almost everything i mention, though i appear less interested or willing to learn.
some of it is laziness, some of it is stubbornness, but most of it is just about communication. on that there are good days and other days.
plus this wasnt a challenge, i was just being defensive:

> though your claims so far are no more backed up than mine

> ~~ antix/MX ARE USING A DERIVED, FEATURE-EXPANDED, VERSION OF THE CLEVER
> LIVEBOOT SNAPSHOT UTILITY CREATED BY fsmithred. (The point of contrast here
> is that devuan is not yet supporting live / persistence / frugal / install / snapshot)

this is the kind of stuff i ALWAYS want to know about. and yeah, its weird how little focus devuan has on live. i simply put it to "well aitor and fsr are doing fine with that, perhaps unofficial-devuan-live will become official-devuan-live"
id be in favor of that, with my main concern being how much ends up on fsrs shoulders as a result.

> From where I sit, their momentum has exceeded, continues to exceed that of devuan.
> If requested, I'll post a bulleted list of the achievements/differences I've noticed.
> Really though, I had hoped you'd check/compare for yourself.

i never have "realtime" to check things anymore. im so freaking busy, and i LOVE looking things up but theres 100000 things i wanted to look up this year, and i only got to a few 1000 of them. if you post something i probably want to look at it-- its difficult to promise to these days without lying, and id rather be honest.
it helps when theres no pressure. if someone can just tell me, thats the fastest way to get my attention. im sad to say that sometimes you may even have to tell me twice.
im having several life crises these days, i just cant be on the ball every single day. and i never was every single day, but it used to be better.
cheers. i hope youll stick around, because youre interesting and informative-- two of my favorite things. opinionated isnt all bad, either.

figlfdev
  Posts: 116
  Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 6:23 pm

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### Re: Devuan "discourse" down with expired cert as of yesterda

by thwak » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:00 pm

reiterating "I had hoped you'd check/compare for yourself"
If you can't find time to conduct an antiX or MX liveUSB testdrive,
in the meantime, 100+ videos are available for perusal here: https://www.youtube.com/user/runwiththedolphin/videos
(consider the timeline, though. Some of those videos cover older releases; some details/features have changed)

> my main concern being how much ends up on fsrs shoulders as a result

fsr is acknowledged in the headers of their snapshot script, but theirs is a separately maintained project.
Besides, live-snapshotting provides limited utility; the newer antix "live-usb-maker" and "live-remaster" tools provide more flexibility
(flexibility beyond 'tailored excludes list(s)')
Ultimately, I believe there's a lot of merit in your approach -- "maintain a 'distro', without producing/releasing an iso".
However, your current implementation seems hamstrung by dependence on a "parent distro" which ships pythonic fig,
and reliance upon a 'fig script derived from woof-ce' to achieve the in-place modifications.
Said differently: in comparison, the cited 'github-hosted shell script' implementation seems less brittle, more salable, more approachable.

thwak
  Posts: 174
  Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:58 am

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### Re: Devuan "discourse" down with expired cert as of yesterda

by figlfdev » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:44 am

> thwak wrote:in the meantime, 100+ videos are available for perusal here: https://www.youtube.com/user/runwiththedolphin/videos
> (consider the timeline, though. Some of those videos cover older releases; some details/features have changed)

now youre talking.

> more flexibility
> (flexibility beyond 'tailored excludes list(s)')

totally valid! im aware of the limitations of that approach, and (having tried woof) id be much more likely to use the antix builder than woof if it came to that.
devuan uses the debian kernel, so one thing i DONT think i need is to rebuild that. but the initrd is something i will be learning about per my own methods and pace.

> your current implementation seems hamstrung by dependence on a "parent distro" which ships pythonic fig,

fwiw it works in puppy, devuan, refracta, and fig os itself-- which is available as an iso on archive.org. the advantages of building the iso include customization, learning how it works, being able to find out what it does (which is slightly different.)

> and reliance upon a 'fig script derived from woof-ce' to achieve the in-place modifications.

its already 50% bash code as it is-- none of it is derived from the woof scripts, its all me. it certainly loads code from a variety of sources, but mkfigos is cc0 (public domain) fig and bash with some multiline strings in python.
overkill? you could say that. also way less bother for me, which is why im not doing it in pure bash.
yes, i can do all the crazy things (ok most) that woof does to work in nothing but bash. on the other hand, the fig version would be easier to get running in windows (not the point of course.)

> in comparison, the cited 'github-hosted shell script' implementation seems less brittle, more salable, more approachable.

i dont think bash scripts are almost ever less brittle. bash functions arent scoped (lets just keep track of 100 variables) and bash has so many little rules that are so important-- i spent 10 years getting proficient, vs a year writing and learning and developing fig. and i already had written code for 20 years before learning bash.
to scope fig all you do is this:
function fname opt opt opt ...
# code goes here # (optional) return varname
fig
now you dont have to worry about variable names interfering with each other. i think bash is great, but i dont love large projects in it.
lets move this to the other forum for a reply if possible-- i have no preference, but even though figos is based on refracta its definitely not about devuan forum certs.
full responsibility for my part-- including starting it if (its not unlikely i did.)

figlfdev
  Posts: 116
  Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 6:23 pm

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