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## Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Refracta Development, Scripts, etc.
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173 posts • Page 6 of 18 • 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 18

### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by fsmithred » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:42 pm

I was wrong when I said that my sid-systemd with both systemd and sysvinit is working - if I boot with sysvinit, the user loses reboot/shutdown. That's before the latest updates. I'll test again later after updating and letting libsystemd0 replace the -daemon and -login packages.
I'm also testing openssh-server in a snapshot. It seems that live-config turns off password authentication completely, so the only way to ssh in is if you have auth keys set up. I think I have a thread about this, and if so, I'll post details there.
More later...

fsmithred
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### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by golinux » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:59 pm

> fsmithred wrote:@golinux: Yeah, add it and reboot. If you don't want to reboot, add it to /proc like this:
> Code: Select all
>   `echo "1" > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq`

Thanks!

> fsmithred wrote:Even more hopeful: mplayer installed without complaint and works. That didn't work before. I guess adding the old libpulse0 fixed that.

It keeps getting better! But two steps forward, one step back it seems. I have faith you will work it out eventually . . .
May the FORK be with you!

golinux
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  Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:23 am

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### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by golinux » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:15 pm

> fsmithred wrote:I was wrong when I said that my sid-systemd with both systemd and sysvinit is working - if I boot with sysvinit, the user loses reboot/shutdown. That's before the latest updates. I'll test again later after updating and letting libsystemd0 replace the -daemon and -login packages.
> I'm also testing openssh-server in a snapshot. It seems that live-config turns off password authentication completely, so the only way to ssh in is if you have auth keys set up. I think I have a thread about this, and if so, I'll post details there.
> More later...

Discussion just started on -user about this problem:

> All roads to suspend/hibernate lead through systemd?
> No, this is not a troll (seems like that is necessary to state up
> front). I have been experimenting with dropping systemd from my laptop
> running Sid but find that even with xfce4-power-manager suspend nor
> hibernate are available any more unless I install the policykit-1
> package recommended by the upower package which depends on
> libpam-systemd which, even if I install systemd-shim, also installs the
> systemd package as a dependency, even though it won't run as PID 1.
> Has anyone worked out a way to enable suspend in xfce4-power-manager
> without ultimately installing systemd?
> - Nate

Maybe you'll want to follow it?
May the FORK be with you!

golinux
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  Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:23 am

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### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by fsmithred » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:02 am

Made some snapshots today. The one made with jessie-sysvinit (no *systemd* and with older dbus) has autologin to desktop and console and sudo working with the default boot (no components= in the boot command.) The two made with sid-systemd (before and after update/upgrade) there's no autologin and no sudo with the default boot.
Openssh is a slightly different story, as I mentioned in an earlier post. In the sysvinit snapshot, password authentication is turned off, so I can't get in. In the systemd snapshot, password auth is set to yes, but the host keys don't get created. It appears the live-config scripts (or some of them) don't work if you boot with systemd. And that's with live-config-systemd installed, NOT live-config-sysvinit. (jessie-sysv has live-config-sysvinit.)
I didn't try adding any components to the boot command.

Code: Select all
  `[email protected]
  :~$ ls /var/lib/live/config/
  hostname login refracta-lang sysvinit util-linux xscreensaver
  lightdm openssh-server ssl-cert sysv-rc xfce4-panel
  locales policykit sudo tzdata xinit
  [email protected]
  :~$ ls /var/lib/live/config/
  hostname login refracta-lang sysvinit tzdata xinit
  locales openssh-server sudo sysv-rc util-linux xscreensaver
  `

fsmithred
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### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by kelsoo » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:05 pm

http://debianfork.org/
leading to
http://without-systemd.org/debian-jessie/
https://eurynome.mirbsd.org/debs/debidx.htm

kelsoo
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### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by golinux » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:21 pm

> kelsoo wrote:http://debianfork.org/

Exciting times! Are you part of this project?
May the FORK be with you!

golinux
  Posts: 663
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### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by thwak » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:53 pm

The forkdebian site linked to lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00001.html
and
apparently has generated enough rubbernecker curiousity/traffic to DDOS the lists.debian.org server
more blather (past 24hrs):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8477659
lotta blather on a white background page:
http://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments ... ackernews/
another white background page (just in case the other gets too full?)
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ ... rk_debian/
===============================
Other than SteamOS, the only projects which likely have an infrastructure capable of sustaining a fork are: tanglu, aptosid, and siduction.
So far, each of those projects seems to be willingly "going with the flow" regarding systemd.
If someone could convince Mattias at tanglu that avoiding systemd would be an outstanding differentiator for the distro, that would be swell.
(I suspect that no motivation short of throwing money at him would do the trick, though.)
If you're aware of any other project having a suitable debian-like infrastructure in place, please post it.
Arranging hosting and building out the infrastructure (build servers, repo servers, listserv servers, etc)
would be a year-long (minimum!) endeavor for a new player ~~ waiting (hoping)
for hair to grow on the chest of some new startup is really not a feasible alternative, in my book.

thwak
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### silencing da lambs

by thwak » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:44 pm

https://lists.debian.org/debian-curiosa ... 00005.html

thwak
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### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by golinux » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:12 pm

Thank you for following this denouement . . .
*edit* This just posted to -user. Yikes!! What is Poettering smoking!
May the FORK be with you!

golinux
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  Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:23 am

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### Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

by fsmithred » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:47 pm

Wow. I read that before, and I thought it sounded interesting. Seems like it would lead to a very large system, with multiple copies of libraries and whatnot. I probably don't know enough to comment on it without just adding to the noise.
Anyway, I can tell you that I'll have a release very soon, and it'll have most of the apps that were on the last few versions of refracta. This one won't have xfce, and it won't have any systemd stuff. Thanks to dzz pointing out older versions of dbus and libpulse0, there aren't many apps that won't install. So... it'll have one filesystem structure, one set of libraries, one architecture, one set of applications, and it will fit on a CD.
Only thing left for me to do is test the installer debs I made today (9.1.1 is here!) and roll a new set of debs for refractasnapshot. I've eliminated the need for gksu or any other graphical su doohicky. (Yay xterm!). Maybe later, I'll fix it so that all of those blah-su programs will work, and xterm will still be there as a fallback. Not difficult, but I want to get stuff out early so people can test it. We don't really know if the older dbus and libpulse0 will hold up under pressure.
Anyone know what the deal is with mplayer skins? I've got mplayer2 installed, and it works, but I can't figure out how to get to the screen controls. Is it keyboard only now?

fsmithred
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  Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:13 pm

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