Refracta Development, Scripts, etc.
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nadir

- nadir
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:18 am
- Location: here

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:15 pm

Dean started a list with software which will work systemd-less:
basics
xorg
alsa-base
alsa-utils
user environments & components
jwm
icewm
fluxbox
openbox
ratpoison
sawfish
fbpanel
lxpanel
deskmenu
razorqt-desktop
razorqt-panel
razorqt-runner
razorqt-session
razorqt-config
file managers
pcmanfm
xfe
doublecmd-gtk
doublecmd-qt
rox-filer
login manager
xdm
wdm
qingy
ide/editors
geany
scite
mousepad
leafpad
terminals
lxterminal
mrxvt
xterm
rxvt
roxterm
web browsers
iceweasel
chromium
arora
xxxterm
dillo
surf
netsurf
qupzilla
email clients
sylpheed
claws-mail
web software
filezilla
weechat
lostirc
irssi
aria2
office
abiword
gnumeric
osmo
misc
gourmet
audio/video
moc
vlc-nox
utilities
file-roller
xarchiver
grun
pmount
anticapitalista

- anticapitalista
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 10:49 am

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:47 pm

I'm not totally sure if this would be the only change needed by Debian to restore some sense.
Couldn't dbus just simply be dependent on any init system and not (it seems) hard coded to systemd?
golinux

- golinux
- Posts: 663
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:23 am

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:55 pm

Nice to see you here anticapitalista. Sure hope 'we' can find a way to totally eliminate systemd from jessie or build some sort of alternative. I say 'we' but my main contribution will be to encourage those more capable than I. I need to check out the MEPIS forum to see where you guys stand on this. Haven't been there in a while . . .
anticapitalista

- anticapitalista
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 10:49 am

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:24 pm

Since MX is an xfce distro, it has no option but to use systemd for a Jessie release (at the moment, let's hope Debian sees sense).
nadir

- nadir
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:18 am
- Location: here

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:02 pm

[quote="anticapitalista"]I'm not totally sure if this would be the only change needed by Debian to restore some sense.
Couldn't dbus just simply be dependent on any init system and not (it seems) hard coded to systemd?
I never looked that deep into systems, but that is exactly what i don't understand.
Why not make "any init system" as a dependency (for all kind of software)?
I doubt sense will be restored (even if systemd would be removed again, other **** of the same kind will happen).
anticapitalista

- anticapitalista
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 10:49 am

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:33 pm

Actually, I was wrong earlier. It is possible to install xfce4 on a Debian-Jessie sysvinit base (libsystemd-*) gets installed, but the init is still sysvinit.
dzz

- dzz
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:53 am
- Location: Devon, England

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:40 am

> Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

No. I support only one 3rd party lockin.. in the local pub.
xfce is crippled without systemd(-sysv). Shutdown/reboot/suspend and usb mounts don't work as user. Systemd-shim is broken, bug report pages degenerating to slanging matches. Systemd libs are required by dbus (in wheezy also), cups and gimp.. and this is only the beginning. Not much hope for xfce, it's too dependent on gnome stuff.
I have at the moment one sid system with Trinity Desktop, older dbus and older libpulse0. No systemd libs at all are present and everything works including shutdown and usb mounts. It has *systemd* excluded similarly to how Dean described. http://paste.debian.net/121658/ (package list)
IMO it is better to install from debootstrap, then install sysvinit, purge and exclude *systemd* immediately (in chroot) before building the rest of the system.
Anyone managed to get eudev running on Debian yet? Failed here so far.
anticapitalista

- anticapitalista
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 10:49 am

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:38 am

dzz - how did you get dbus installed without it dragging libsystemd? Is it an older version than the one in Jessie?
dzz

- dzz
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:53 am
- Location: Devon, England

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:28 am

dbus dependency ont systemd-login0 was introduced in 1.5.10-1 .. 1.5.8-1 is the last Debian package free of *systemd* http://snapshot.debian.org/package/dbus/1.5.8-1/

> dbus (1.5.10-1) experimental; urgency=low
> * New upstream release
> * Merge from unstable
> * Build with systemd console-user-checking support
> * Use debhelper 9 (mainly for compressed, build-ID-based debug symbols),
> and dpkg's default.mk instead of hardening-includes
> -- Simon McVittie <[email protected]
> > Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:24:14 +0000

I didn't expect it to install on sid but it has. No problem noticed yet but this system is still quite new. Libpulse0 from wheezy satisfies mplayer (and other multimedia) deps.
https://github.com/nomius/ktsuss builds and works on wheezy and sid. This project (gtk2) is recently reactivated. There is also kdesu and tdesu therefore refractasnapshot does not need to depend strictly on gksu.
Alternatives which actually work with freedom from *systemd* now take priority over "Debian Purism" for me.
kelsoo

- kelsoo
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:56 am

## Re: Going with the systemd flow . . . or not?

Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:16 pm

Very nice to see Refracta making an effort here. It's the only Debian I have left on any of my machines since the Gnome3, systemd, Torvalds and the DTC lost the plot.
Nadir! Nice to see your alive and well. I was thinking you 'd headed off to south America on your skateboard.
Pop over to #dragora for a chat.. We even have Libre office now
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